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Bram Cohen: 'Getting Rich Is a Terrible Metric of Success'

CoinDesk reporter Leigh Cuen sits down with Bram Cohen, author of the BitTorrent protocol and CEO of Chia.

Updated Sep 14, 2021, 8:30 a.m. Published Apr 19, 2020, 2:00 p.m.

CoinDesk reporter Leigh Cuen is joined by Bram Cohen, author of the BitTorrent protocol and CEO of Chia. In this wide-ranging interview, they talk about Cohen’s early interest in “hard problems,” his unexpected ascent from sketchy to celebrity and much more.

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Leigh and Bram discuss:

The real promise and strengths of cryptocurrency
Really interesting problems in cryptocurrency
Getting started in crypto 20 years ago with MojoNation and glorious failure
The origin of BitTorrent
Speculative investment, the dot-com boom and where real wealth comes from
The Bitcoin Wizards IRC channel and Bram's arrival in crypto
How the Bitcoin Wizards stance on ASIC resistance led to Bram’s creation of "Proofs of Time" and "Proofs of Space"
Getting rich as a side effect of making the world a better place
Scaling, sharding and unsophisticated engineering
Why "Proof-of-Stake" is a step backwards from "Proof-of-Work"
A system that doesn't suck: How engineers try and fail to improve the finance industry
The unregulated banking crisis, shadow banking and hiring the smartest minds to obfuscate leverage
Why trusted third parties are the problem
Satoshi's wonderful, horrible idea and the obviousness of Proof-of-Work
What Satoshi did surprisingly well
Why improving proof of work wouldn't really improve bitcoin
Coherent goals: more decentralized and less wasteful
Both Proof-of-Work and Proof-of-Stake have a scary degree of centralization
Ethereum’s terrifying improvements to the on-chain programming environment
New functionality within Chia that helps cryptocurrency feel less like "carrying around hundred dollar bills"
Limiting opportunities for theft with user-controlled rate and recipient limiting
Thinking about ecosystems and adoption
What is your favorite use case for cars? Is it tires?
Open source software, politics and adoption
What is the role of advocacy in making something useful?
Why bitcoin gets a bad reputation for things it doesn't have strong associations with
Why "governance" is such a touchy topic
Why Chia is funded by venture capital rather than token offerings
How Bitcoin is different from what's come after it
"Our technological capacity exceeds our political will to negotiate the terms of that capacity"
Why Bram hates the "Fake it till you make it" ethos
Engineering sticker shock
The "everyone uses cryptocurrency for everything" narrative vs. the "how do we get anyone using cryptocurrency for anything good?" reality
Better metrics for success than "getting rich"
Great leaders and bullshit artists
Bitcoin's trajectory and the meritocratic history of technology
Colored coins, distributed identity, timestamps and censorship-resistant value
Minimal functionality, subtle cleanups and simplified transaction formats in the Chia programming environment
Chia's testnet
And more...

BitTorrent Bitcoin Bram Cohen Chia Podcasts Leigh Cuen

Adam B. Levine

Adam B. Levine joined CoinDesk in 2019 as the editor of its new audio and podcasts division. Previously, Adam founded the long-running Let's Talk Bitcoin! talk show with co-hosts Stephanie Murphy and Andreas M. Antonopoulos. Finding early success with the show, Adam transformed the podcast's homepage into a full newsdesk and publishing platform, founding the LTB Network in January of 2014 to help broaden the conversation with new and different perspectives. In the Spring of that year, he would go on to launch the first and largest tokenized rewards program for creators and their audience. In what many have called an early influential version of "Steemit"; LTBCOIN, which was awarded to both content creators and members of the audience for participation was distributed until the LTBN was acquired by BTC, Inc. in January of 2017. With the network launched and growing, in late 2014 Adam turned his attention to the practical challenges of administering the tokenized program and founded Tokenly, Inc. There, he led the development of early tokenized vending machines with Swapbot, tokenized identity solution Tokenpass, e-commerce with TokenMarkets.com and media with Token.fm. Adam owns some BTC, ETH and small positions in a number of other tokens.

Leigh Cuen

Leigh Cuen is a tech reporter covering blockchain technology for publications such as Newsweek Japan, International Business Times and Racked. Her work has also been published by Teen Vogue, Al Jazeera English, The Jerusalem Post, Mic, and Salon. Leigh does not hold value in any digital currency projects or startups. Her small cryptocurrency holdings are worth less than a pair of leather boots.